how much power?

[tmerivale]

got a couple of questions not sure if i should have put this post in the engine section or not but its now too late anyway. More so focusing on Q1, but all 3 would be great  

Question 1: Does anyone experience wheel stands on take off if you give it to it?

Question 2: What engine combo's are you guys running especially all you air cooled boys and girls

Question 3: What sort of power are you guys hitting and from where atf or atw?

I know for some you might not want to say exact but at least give a rough idea without any porky pies please.
Cheers,

Trev

[CyCo]

No wheelstands, it I can get it to step out on a corner with no probs.

Subaru Vortex ea82t. Great powerband for these cars setups, and the turbo there to get you into/out of trouble.   

No idea if it's atf or atw (presume the latter), it's documented (from a photocopy of the Vortex stats), about 94kw or about 125 horsepower. Not sure if the engine has been tinkered with, but it sure scoots along and makes me thing that those figures need to come up some.

[tmerivale]

what a champ, thanks buddy... im just making some enquiries atm in regards to prices and horses one guy has said around 8 grand for 125hp... i think its not bad if you think about the cost of the scooby plus the extra weight of motor and supports which would have to negatively alter the power to weight ratio. i cant be stuffed getting an engineers report and i dont think if i was to be involved in an accident that the TAC would hand out any money with "illegal" modifications. so in short FOR ME the cost of the scooby motor plus engineers is too much compared to a worked aircooled

have you strengthened your transaxle?
not sure how the transaxle would handle the added power of the scooby compared to stock then with the turbo kicking in as well..... hmmmmmm

by the way, your reek looks nuts... nice job

[Agroeureka]

Hi

Q1 Yes second gear redline launch good to upset old brock commodores could carry the front wheels across the typical traffic light intersection 200mm-350mm high (Have had my car from the time i was 21) and at that time gearboxes were cheap.

Q2 At that time i was running an 1835 vw with twin 40 mm webers custom exhaust.
I am at present setting up another 1835 vw with twin 48 mm webers with all custom parts (cam heads lifters rockers ect) (see engine posts)
Once i have re registered my car i have a 2 litre kombi motor and two of Mr Garrets finest ready to build and install.

Q3 Power out put i have no idea of what my old motor was puting out. The present 1835 i also have no idea but i will be puting the car on dyno after rego to install an EFI system before the install of the Kombi motor.At present i think i may have between 150 -225hp at the  crank so 108-168hp at the wheels.(After a few drinks coud be quite a lot more)At present my motor is still tight but a quick rev will toss off the stock v belt for the fan and the hp numbers have been guessed from fuel pump numbers.

Transaxle mine is now a 901 porsche item not the strongest but is a five speed i have bought some up grade parts to help it hold together in time i will up grade this to either a 915 race box or a G50 (turbo)$$$$$$$$.
Transaxle life will depend more on your treatment of the unit than anything else.(My treatment as a 20yo would last 3-4weeks)

Andrew

[CyCo]

No mods to the transaxle as far as I know, and it's not even the single plate version either. Seems to go ok with it. but I'd love to get a 5 speed 'box for her one day.

And I'd get it engineered if I were you. If you're caught, you'd have to book thrown at you and that will probably involve a lot of money and probably your car impounded.

[tmerivale]

Agro thanks heaps for such detail, its really appreciated. i think i may need to fork out a few dollars and get the transaxle beefed up a bit. i am young and it will be driven hard, maybe not all the time but definately occassionally it will be.  what are the "Mr Garrets" worth roughly as an entire turbo set up? i know with each car its different a couple of my mates are right into their skylines and vl turbos and stuff but obviously because of the size difference in engine these will be a very different setup

does anyone know of someone that can build a really strong transaxle?
also i understand that some people out their in the vw world are running their cars with a nice limited slip... whats it like... is it worth the money?
i used to drive a vn that instead of the standard 3.08 diff gears i slapped in a set of 3.9s with lsd... only problem is i lasted 1 week before the pretty red and blue lights caught up to me and the kind man said your not driving for 12 months. i guess its my own fault but getting back to the point are the reeks in need of it? does it create too much understeer with all the weight in the back? pros and cons from people that have experienced both would be unreal!!!

No mods to the transaxle as far as I know, and it's not even the single plate version either. Seems to go ok with it. but I'd love to get a 5 speed 'box for her one day.

And I'd get it engineered if I were you. If you're caught, you'd have to book thrown at you and that will probably involve a lot of money and probably your car impounded.

This is why im not going to go the way a foreign motor as i had been thinking of this point. Thanks for the concern though, cause id rather know what i already know rather than not know what i should have known  . as i live in vic and it was previously registered here in vic the rta said on friday that i dont need the engineers. if i was getting it engineered later on then id consider going possibly a scooby or something else with modern balls.


if anyone else is happy to share that would be great

[Gunna]

also i understand that some people out their in the vw world are running their cars with a nice limited slip... whats it like... is it worth the money?

Re: the LSD.
I found this note from the EU site interesting reading.
Hope it helps.
I'm aiming for just a camber compensator for the swingarm axle on the RRRR.  That'll do me for cruising.


A limited slip differential tries to re-distribute the engine torque when one tyre loses adhesion. Apart from modern electronic systems, they work on two basic principles - the clutch pack, which has a number of miniture clutch plates running in special transmission oil, and the cone clutch type, which use cups with spring-loaded cones to provide limited slip. The clutch packs are often very jerky in use, popping and banging as you go round corners. They are favoured by racers and are not very civilised for street use. Cone clutches are better for this, as they engage more gently, but I think all of the Quaife diffs are clutch pack type.

Swing axles spend a lot of time at odd angles, and your tyres will therefore be presenting variable amounts of tread to the road. On the face of it, this would make an LSD a good idea, as it should (in theory) redistribute the torque from a tyre with limited traction (small contact patch) to the other tyre, which may be better planted. However, the LSD can only distribute the torque within the limits of available grip, which overall will be quite small due to the swing axle suspension. So the improvement in grip will not compensate for the loss due to the use of this suspension. If you had an IRS, there would be more grip to start with, due to the improved geometry, so you will be able to put more power down before losing any grip. Bottom line - with IRS you will put more power on the pavement than an LSD on swing axles (or swing axles on LSD, even  ).

I've only ever had a slipper on one of my cars (my '71 Plymouth Barracuda), and the only time it ever came into play was when I blasted off onto a wet roundabout and left two plumes of water in my wake! Apart from the time when I went to the Popham aerojumble/classic car show and successfully got out of a muddy field I can honestly say that under all other circumstances (even hoofing around corners, which the Fish was especially adept at) the LSD never once cut in. It was a Borg-Warner sourced cone clutch system (Mopar 8 3/4" ring gear) and still popped a bit on slow corners.

Last point (then I'll shut up) - LSD's can increase the sensation of understeer, particularly on light, powerful cars and those with FWD. So in the Nova you might find that the steering becomes less responsive under hard acceleration out of a corner.

IRS - you know it makes sense 

Lauren

[The Metalsmith]

Horsepower.
                      What a popular/classic subject.

A1. I was lifting the front end of my reek with around 200hp atf when I had the original Kent/Cosworth turbo engine and single sideplate box. The box appeared to handle the HP no worries.

A2. My reek now has a Nissan SR20 turbo with a Porsche G50 5 speed box. It is currently awaiting paint and final assembly.

A3. The engine package I've had built is proven to produce more than 400hp atf. The box can easily handle more than 500.

Regarding your transaxle concerns: unless you're planning more than 200hp the single sideplate VW box can handle it. There are several club reeks in this HP area that are not suffering problems.

If you want to beef your transaxle/box I'd suggest Wayne Penrose (02 42725644) who operates a Performance VW business on the NSW south coast. He's still winning the Sport Compact category of drag racing with his 'dubs and is at the front of 'dub performance at the moment. Alternately you could speak to Boris at Vintage VW (0297891777) who's done several high HP VW 's before as well.

I believe the Australian VW Performance Centre in Vic might be worth a call too. Stuart's box is handling bulk HP from his turbo'ed VW.

Be aware, you're never going to be able to eliminate all the oversteer associated with these vehicles due to the rear engine design. Though it is possible to eliminate about 80 to 90% of it through careful wieght redistribution, suspension set-ups and anti roll bar settings.

     Simon

[tmerivale]

Thanks Gunna, definitely worth reading...
not sure if it truly is worth spending the dollars for something that doesn't do all that much. Maybe after some time of driving it when i get it registered with a decent motor then ill make up my mind, but don't think at this point of time i will worry about it

Horsepower.
                      What a popular/classic subject.

A1. I was lifting the front end of my reek with around 200hp atf when I had the original Kent/Cosworth turbo engine and single sideplate box. The box appeared to handle the HP no worries.

A2. My reek now has a Nissan SR20 turbo with a Porsche G50 5 speed box. It is currently awaiting paint and final assembly.

A3. The engine package I've had built is proven to produce more than 400hp atf. The box can easily handle more than 500.

Regarding your transaxle concerns: unless you're planning more than 200hp the single sideplate VW box can handle it. There are several club reeks in this HP area that are not suffering problems.

If you want to beef your transaxle/box I'd suggest Wayne Penrose (02 42725644) who operates a Performance VW business on the NSW south coast. He's still winning the Sport Compact category of drag racing with his 'dubs and is at the front of 'dub performance at the moment. Alternately you could speak to Boris at Vintage VW (0297891777) who's done several high HP VW 's before as well.

I believe the Australian VW Performance Centre in Vic might be worth a call too. Stuart's box is handling bulk HP from his turbo'ed VW.

Be aware, you're never going to be able to eliminate all the oversteer associated with these vehicles due to the rear engine design. Though it is possible to eliminate about 80 to 90% of it through careful wieght redistribution, suspension set-ups and anti roll bar settings.

     Simon

Thanks Simon, I'm actually talking to a Rod Penrose in regards to an engine setup that is i believe in also in NSW, in the aussie veedubbers site he has a picture of a chopped little beetle at the strip, checked the phone numbers, they are different, maybe related? 400hp isn't bad i hope you have an ejection seat and a pair of retractable wings!!
Also i think the box will be put on the waiting list.
Cheers

Great info guys   

[Agroeureka]

Hi

Turbos should never be treated as a bolt on the motor needs to be built to make the best use of them and to last, my motor will cost $8-10k : : before adding turbos.

You should note that for this power levels all aspects of the cars construction need to be designed to work at this level including brakes.

Weight balance is very inportant having this right will limit the effects of an LSD diff , improve your braking ,turn in stabillity and out of conner acceleration.
With my car i am removing all unnecessary weight (old brackets ect) any new construction is designed with weight limitation in mind. After final assembly i will scale the car and add some weight to the front to try to bring the weight balance to the magic 50/50.

I have to agree with Simon (Metalsmith) about the oversteer with these cars but every car nut likes a bit of drift every now and then on the track.

Andrew

[tmerivale]

i love the over steer, not too keen on under steer
in regards to brakes, what ones are you considering?
I have disc up front and drum rear.
i hear that the EA brakes are good???
what makes these so suitable, and are there better ones then from the EA for a reasonable price?

[Agroeureka]

Hi
Brakes will be EA rear and the front VX Holden commodore disks and callipers
Then up graded to HSV Callipers and disks on the front
The rears i a still looking around

Remember the correct brake bias needs to be maintained.So just buying a good deal/brand may in the long run not be worth it.

Andrew

[tmerivale]

According to wikepedia this is what they say.....

# Brake bias, which determines the extent to which the rear brakes begin to function before the front brakes, or vice versa. Brakes biased towards the rear tend to improve control and precision when braking into corners, but increase the braking distance.

So as I'm not racing there should be more at the front then the back... what is a good brake bias then ?

[Agroeureka]

Hi

The brake bias ratio will depend upon the weight bias/balance also the weight transfer during braking. All the parts of your handling package will dictate the weight transfer and in a racing situation this would be used to design a braking system.
For a road car you will need to talk to your certifying engineer. The ADR's do from memory set a brake bias ratio although I cannot remember what it is.
My advice to you would be to find a certifying engineer and spend time talking to them by all means ask questions on the forum but all modifications must pass certification.
I have had a lot of conversations with my engineer and now he doesn’t like my phone calls anymore he told me last week that he keeps having to get out his text books to answer my questions (To much work for him he is semi retired).

Are you in NSW

Andrew

[tmerivale]

Nah mate I'm in Melbourne.