My F4

[CyCo]

Well, today marks the 4th time mine's been on the back of a flatbed. Went for a spin this afternoon when it had cooled down some, and didn't get that far. Maybe 30 minutes into my drive, I stop for some fuel. Get back in the car and it doesn't go. Makes a short attempt to start then nothing. Here we go again I think, even though it got a brand new battery. I had my jump pack with me, so I tried that when I saw I had no reading from my battery terminal. It went to start, but then all I had was a rapid series of clicks.

So I did a series to checks. In short, without the jump pack, there was no reading on the terminal. With the jump pack, I get a reading of about 13.8 or so. Another check, I go to close the roof, figuring I'd have to get it towed home. First I use the key on the driver side without the jump pack. No go. Reconnect the jump pack, it closes. Also the thermo fan comes on (currently wired up to come on when the car is turned on). So that indicates the wiring is ok.

I did try a couple more things to work out what was happening where, but I forget exactly, it's now late and I'm a tad tired.

When I got back home, I rang Ron as he did the wiring and is much better than I am when it comes to cars. lol

Left a message and he rang me back later. After talking to him about what happened and what I tried to get it going, he was more thinking that it was the starter motor either sticking or just stuffed, rather than the alternator. My first thought was starter motor, then alternator.

Those of you who've followed my adventures over the last few years might remember something very similar happening to me about two years ago. Stopped on the side of the road, car didn't start, got towed home (this late friday arvo). Monday, towed to my mechanic, got a recon starter motor from Brisvegas, car starts. I'll have to see if I can find the receipt, but I think it came with a 6 to 12 month warranty (it was a reconditioned part after all, not new).

So in the next few days I'll try a couple of things to see if I can get the blasted thing started, depending on how that goes I'll have to get it seen to by an auto sparky.   

[cruetoone]

the battery is flat if when you turned the key an heard rapid clicks so when you used the jump pack an if got this right it turned over the battery is probly not holding it's charge so some where back through the electrical system is a major cause an you need an auto electrician...

[CyCo]

No, the battery wasn't flat straight off. Firstly it was a brand new battery, a week old. Secondly, it did have a go at turning the starter motor over then quit very quickly. It was after that, when I tried again, that I got the repeated clicks.

Talking to Ron, basically when starting your car, the starter motor practically drains the current from your battery to get the motor going. Once it's started it puts most of it back and then the alternator is meant to do its job and top up the battery. So once it didn't start the first time, the battery has quite drained. When I tried again, there was not enough juice to turn the starter motor over.

[tmerivale]

g'day cyco... not sure on prices but have you thought about going to a bosch starter and a higher amp alternator? might be worth the extra couple of coin. good luck with your little problem, im sure it wont be a major issue to fix.

[CyCo]

Well, I'm not sure on the starter (might have to chat with Ron about that one), but I'm sure the alternator is fine (if it's working that is), as the engine isn't VW, it's a Subaru unit (ea82t from a Vortex). Still, I'll keep your advice in mind.

I'm not overly worried about the problem, yes it means it's not on the road, but I don't think it's a huge issue. I even have a folder of wiring diagrams for the auto electrician to consult if it comes to that.

[tmerivale]

let us know what the problem is when its all sorted, im rather curious about this one

[cruetoone]

me too cause it was a hint of battery problem but sure of another problem of the cause...

[CyCo]

Only way it's a battery problem is I bought a dud, which can happen. I have my 4 day weekend this coming weekend, so I'll try to get an auto electrician out to look at it then.

[cruetoone]

maybe it has had a fit dealing with the new colour scheme...
we await the photo's...

[CyCo]

Well, it's going.

But I'm not sure for how long.

Went to see if I could get it going. First thing I did was to see if it would start, nothing. I needed to raise the roof so I could get in, roof wouldn't lift. Connect recharged jump pack, roof raised. Also noted that the display on the battery terminal wasn't giving a reading until I hooked up the jump pack.

I check the fuse panel under the dash, mainly for the ignition, as well as the fuses in the engine bay. They all seemed to be fine. Then I noticed the green led under the gear lever was on. Double checked, the battery pack wasn't connected. Hmm, loose fuse? So I go to start the car. No go. So led must have been lit by residue current, they'll do that, some for a few minutes. But I double check all the fuses I had just checked and for each one I checked the led. It didn't light up. So that was that eliminated.

Next step, block of wood, a hammer, and the starter motor. Gave it a few solid whacks. I connected the jump pack, and tried starting the car. It went to start but was hesitating, even gave me a couple of clicks just as I turned it off. Had a thought and rang Ron, so he could hear it starting (even though he's at work and the phone isn't near him, he'd get the voice mail). So I go to start it again. Also remember that this is the second start on the jump pack, so it's been fairly drained. But it gives it a good solid go, and wouldn't you know it, it starts. I didn't even have to goose it. One it was started, I manually revved the throttle cable so it was idling ok.   

All well and good.

But I made another couple of observations. First, the battery display was telling me it was at 11.8 amps. Over the next 10 - 15 minutes, that went down to 11.6 amps. Also, the red alternator light came on, but remained on when it should turn off once the cars going. Must admit, even though it's in front of my face when in the drivers seat, I don't remember it's behavior the last couple of months... 

In review, it looks like the starter motor had jammed and needed a good thumping, something I couldn't do out on the road (no block of wood or hammer). Second, it does look like I'm up for a new alternator. I should have one here somewhere, but I'll seek out a new one if possible.

 

[redreek(the stig)]

when it is running at idle put your head lights on to high beam then turn the lights on if there is a slight change in the engine revs the alternator is ok,but with the exon lights i'm not sure if the revs will change but worth a try.
allso check the battery.
..darren

[CyCo]

I did check the headlights today when I was working on the car, to see what strength they were when running, they were nice and bright. But I didn't think to listen to the revs when I was checking the lights. I was intending to try starting the car tomorrow, so I'll try that idea then.

[tmerivale]

your car sounds like it has a mind of its own. quite interesting though

[cruetoone]

he's car is unique but i don't want to get into the whole orange an red debate here to... 

[Agroeureka]

Hi
Cyco I have just reread your posts because it’s not making sense to me
Questions
1)   Is the battery display in volts or amps
2)   Do you have a battery charger
Conversion for alternate motors usually uses a VW starter motor with the fly wheel manufactured to fit the crankshaft of the new motor (the starter motor is mounted in the gearbox). Usually a person would upgrade to a so called high out put starter or a Kombi high output unit.
The kombi starter is different to the beetle as it does not have a pinion support at the flywheel end of the shaft in some cases of starting problems with beetles it’s the bush (bearing) has failed in the box and not allowing the starter to mesh properly with the fly wheel I think I have pictures at home will post tonight. Also when the battery becomes very low some starters will jam in mesh with the flywheel making all sorts of noises and false electrical paths. 
If the battery display is in volts this indicates that the alternator is not charging don’t worry this could be as simple as the battery being too flat to excite the alternator (make it work) if you don’t have a battery charger buy one. Its a good idea as the beast is not driven regularly and this leads to the battery going flat  as there only $40 for a cheap one this would be a trickle charger or a slow charger leave it to charge over night(have the leads disconnected from the car as to eliminate any discharge or other issues). After it’s been charging over night check all battery lead terminals as being clean and tight, then try starting it. This battery voltage should have come up enough to start the motor and run the alternator with out using your jump pack.
After you have started it check the battery display if it displays voltage as I suspect it should be showing around 13.9-14.2 volts this would indicate the alternator is operation correctly. The source of your problem will be then somewhere else you may have a unit/component that is draining the battery when the car is turned off like a defective radio, remote control unit or an alarm.     
Hope this helps
If you need to clarify any of what I have writhen give me a call (will pm you my phone number)

Andrew