Handling characteristics?

[mrtomt]

Hi List,

I Just wanted to get some opinions from owners about the driving characteristics of these cars....
I'm particularly interested in how the lack of weight in the front end effects performance? What happens under heavy breaking and cornering in the wet for example?
What about wider & thinner tyres - does this mack much of a difference?
Also, is there any footage of these cars on a track being pushed to the limits of their handling?
Sorry about all of these questions, just trying to get an idea of how well the standard chassis setup can perform.
Thanks in advance,
Tom

[tmerivale]

from what ive been told allan purvis i believe it was or someone else had taken theirs to an unused runway hammered it, spun 360 degrees and kept going back in the straight line. just a story ive heard i cant confirm it though. my dad reckons you could go very quick around corners but that was around 30 years ago so who knows. i hope this helps just a little.

[CyCo]

Really depends on what donk you have. With a bug donk, you'll get improved acceleration and top speed, simply because of the reduced weight. The cars will tend to step out at the rear because all the weight is behind the rear axle. More so with a more powerful donk. And if there's water or a loose surface (gravel, etc), you'll find yourself really getting the tail swinging.

I do have some footage of the 'reeks on a skidpan, which will better demonstrate what happens. 

As for that story of a 'reek, a runway, 360* spin and driving away, I doubt it. Not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely.

[mrtomt]

That link was great. Thanks Cyco.

Ok, so it seems the most important thing is to minimize the weight at the back and add any additional components to the front ideally to help further balance the car.

Does anyone know what the lightest engine fitted to these cars would be? Rotary maybe?

Cheers,

Tom

[tmerivale]

again only hear say but what i have been told is that the rotarys are quite heavy, id imagine light would be a standard volksy motor. i know there are some wrx powered beetles out there, check out the aussie vw site and have a word with some of the guys on there, a lot of these guys are in the same boat as the metal smith in the sense of either having their own business in the auto industry or have plenty of knowledge about it. there are some bugs out there that are running some freaky times down the 1/4 mile using hotted up aircooled motors.
http://www.aussieveedubbers.com/Site/Welcome.html

Cyco thanks for clearing that up i wasnt sure about it either hence the "from what ive been told" at the start. unfortunately there are a number of stories out there that start out as someones fantasy.

[CyCo]

Not a problem guys. That 360* spin could be possible, but I'd imagine the driver would have to be a pro driver, say something like a stunt driver. The problem with these cars is the rear weight. Not that Porsche also has the majority of their cars rear engined (being cousins to the VW), but then again, their chassis design has been in constant development, and devoted to a sportscar arrangement, not something agricultural like the VW setup for a 'low speed' sedan. If you go looking for reports of 911's back in the '70s, you find they had a reputation of a 'Widow Maker' as people would fling their Porka's round a bend and find their engine pulling them off the road and into the scenery.

Moving some weight forwards helps this issue somewhat. The Poms have tackled this with most of them seeming to have their fuel tanks up under the 'bonnet'. However I think this is a no-no with our ADRs. One 'benefit' of going water cooled is having your radiator mounted up front under the 'bonnet', but then you loose what storage space you have in the car, and most likely your spare wheel. Or, there has been one of two Eureka/Nova/Stirlings that I've seen with twin radiators mounted right up in the nose, forward of the front wheels, like some of the Porkas. Going this way, you'd probably retain your storage/spare wheel, and add extra weight right up front. One example I saw some time ago, the owner had made up a front sub assembly that mounted from the head of the chassis and held the radiators and also helped stop the 'droop' that these cars sometime develop in the nose.

Hmm, thinking about it, this owner may have actually used a twin battery system, with the batteries right up front. Either way, it moves weight up front. 

With the Scooby engines, whist I don't have a WRX donk in mine, I do have one from the Vortex (ea82t). Very nice powerband, and the turbo is a nice kick in the pants for overtaking, etc. I believe the engine weights about 80kg, but don't quote me on that. But then you also have to think of the additional plumbing, weight of the radiator, and all that coolant (mine uses something around 8 -10 liters!).


An update to the suspension would also be a large help, but that can set you back large dollars. I've seen a new H-beam for the old Bugs, that updates the suspension and steering, but was over $2000 USD.

There are plenty of photos of my car in my PhotoBucket account.

 

[The Metalsmith]

Hmmm.

unfortunately there are a number of stories out there that start out as someones fantasy.

           Some of those stories might be based on fact though.
Fact: I've caned my reek in it's old format (turbo Cosworth donk) up and down the Holsworthy Army base's airstrip at more than 200ks. Didn't do a 360 or a 180 at the end of it though. There's pics of it and the model I hired for the day floating around somewhere.

Fact: A rotor is way lighter than a 'dub donk. And you get to relocate the additional wieght of the required cooling system away from the rear if you wish, like Cyc baby mentioned. ( Another opportunity: [yayyy!] Go the rotor!)

Hi Tom. Lets be realistic here. It's a rebodied rear engined car which is used to having (x) amount of wieght over the front wheels. Its going to have a large amount of oversteer. Having said that, my old format handled very well because I spent the time to set it up properly. I managed to eliminate about 90% of the oversteer. I could go into detail but trust me: you can make these things handle, baby.

I did have 305 wides on the ass and she did aqua-plane like a bitch in the wet. Solution: fair weather car only. I had good disc brakes front and rear. No problems at all with high speed stopping. The lack of wieght over the front means almost nothing when braking.

Hope this clears up some of your doubts.

     Simon

[mrtomt]

Thanks for the info guys.

I've also posted a question on the aussieveedubbers forum so will relay any interesting posts...

p.s. Simon, I think I remember seeing an ad for your car ( if it's the same one ) in unique cars circa 1991?

Looks interesting. Is there anywhere I can see some pics of the car?

Cheers,

Tom

[The Metalsmith]

Yes mate,
              Here's a couple I picked off the Pecca club site:

http://www.eurekacarclub.com.au/gal/sn1.jpg
http://www.eurekacarclub.com.au/gal/sn2.jpg

Unbelieveably, yes, it is the one that appeared in Unique Cars in '91. Susie and I had been looking for a new reek to replace the old one for about 5 years. This one was in a Newcastle shed way up the back with a tarp over it and only 163 kms on the clock. Not thousands, 163 kms.

It had everything I was always going to do to a reek already done, sitting right before me. It was even the right colour! I fell to my knees in awe in it's presence and knew I was having a life changing moment.

Of course, Susie looked at me, looked back at it and instinctively said "No"! Fortunately it only took a short time to talk her into it when (a) she's a full-on car freak anyway and (b) I threatened to leave her if I couldn't have it!

Since then it's been nothing but positives the whole time. I've won close to 30 trophies with it and had 10 or 11 wonderful years on the road. It's currently awaiting a horribly drawn-out completion after a no-holes-barred complete rebuild. My God I miss driving it.

     Simon

[mrtomt]

Well there you go.
I recognized it from the thumbnail. I still remember the frontal 3/4 black & white image in Unique Cars. That was the first time I ever saw a Eureka & have had an interest in them ever since.
Good luck with it....
Cheers,
Tom

[cruetoone]

seeing them on the skidpan in canberra 08 meet quenched my thirst of how they handle tom considering i only saw how my ex handled on local roads in the dry an wet..

[barab13]

           wow man this reek isso cool simon ,ive seen pic of it some where before didnt know you owned it ,is that a door i see and what donk are you runing,love the guards ,its abeast.                      




                                                            barab13

[cruetoone]

yes they are doors totally unique the motor i don't know..
one of favourite reeks i am yet to see..

[CyCo]

I totally forgot about another vid I have up in my PhotoBucket account. Don't know how fast he was going, would have to ask Morris. 

Did anyone get video of me abusing my tyres on the gokart track?   

[cruetoone]

no but i wish i was i bet it was a hoot all the same..